Hi god believers, I have a problem. I really hate suffering. Which god do you recommend to believe in to avoid eternal torture, the one with a son?
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
John 3.18
Or the one without any son?
“Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.”
Quran 4.56
I’ve read a lot of religions. And i really do mean a LOT of religions. If you’re interested in the suffering question, the religion or doctorine that tackles it head on i think is buddhism.
Have a look at the dhammapada. If you like that, consider investigating the bdk tripitaka, the 3 pure land sutras is an interesting text, but try the dhammapada first.
By the way i’m not recommending that text because i’m buddhist, personally i’m closer to egyptian / jainism.
It just happens to be the religion that centrally focuses on the issue of suffering.
It’s ironic that the ones who preach fire and brimstone are the same one who do the same things they preach against. Preaching absolves one of all sins./S
Or the New Atheists. Those guys are insufferable prigs, whose cartoonish mental universe is incapable of grasping adult concepts like poetry, logic, and common rhetorical devices. Their tin pot demigods are dropping like flies – Hitchens died a knee walking drunk, Dawkins just got the boot from the AHA for his anti trans tirades – so you’ll have lots of easy targets for your cheap shots.
They’re not bashing Christianity any more than the Pope right now, apologizing for how Catholics screwed the native people of Canada. Christianity has a long bloody history of destroying cultures around the world. It’s no secret.
So your defense is to attack a couple authors? Do you know what “ad hominem” means?
Or the Old Atheists. Those guys are insufferable prigs, whose cartoonish mental universe is incapable of grasping adult concepts like science and adapting rules to a changing society.
The old testament is also part of the Quran. Same as the Jewish Torah. Together with Christianity it’s the group of Abrahamic religions. It’s all the same god and the same book. Christianity and Islam just added a second volume to put more hate into it. When it comes to religious fanatism they are all the same in the end.
Knowing what happens after death is pretty much unknowable. Knowing if this earth was created and by which possible deity is also unknowable. What evidence do we really have that any religion is correct? There’s not even any evidence for something tangible like Noah’s ark. If you think you know for certain, it’s just wishful thinking.
IF there is a just god, they wouldn’t be punishing us for not being able to answer an unknowable question properly. IF there was really a god, and IF they really wanted us to worship them, then they would have left us evidence.
They will argue:
It’s all written in a book. So it must be true. Copyright by God.
No visible or audible evidence to what’s written in the book is a test of your believe.
Wonders are evidence. They are described in the book.
circular conclusions. That’s all they have.
After his abortion ban Judge Samuel Alito is already working on mandatory religion for American citizens. Hope you are in the right church. Kiss your freedoms good buy. 💋 Christian Iran is coming to your town, too.
This isn’t christian logic. This is bible logic. If you’ve read nicodemus and / or protevangelion and the nag hamadi library, you’d know that the best bits of the bible have been removed leaving only the angry old man garbage frankly.
So just to add to this what i mean, is in the bible christ is a really important figure. If you think about it, the bible skips over christ’s childhood, it glosses over mary’s parents. Now christ’s childhood is really important actually, it gives you a completely different understanding of who christ was.
He was a straight talking person, and no matter how much pressure and how much bullying or how much trouble he was in, he was always straight up about the truth. When he killed people as a child, he was honest about what happened.
Nicodemus covers the trial of christ in great detail – something which is for the most part glossed over the the bible as it stands today. It goes into great detail about what’s happening, and it is apparent in Nicodemus’s account that what is on trial here, the “truth” isn’t about right or wrong, it isn’t about religion or christianity.
What’s on trial is actually the truth, the ability for christ to be himself and be honest. And Christ spectacularly breaks out of this by continuing to show the bravery to be honest no matter even when confronted with death.
Now what’s interesting about Nicodemus’s account is that it’s apparent that the people trying to have christ crucified are actually people who don’t have the courage or bravery to be themselves, they are hiding behind identity politics using religious and idiological arguments as a defence.
After Christ dies (and the two people who are crucified with him, are actually two thieves that Christ comes across in childhood, coincidentally), he becomes a bit of a “gothic” role model, in so much as people respect that this guy stood up to the system, and even though it killed him, he didn’t let the system bully, harass or demoralize him.
As a result other people started stand up for what they felt was right or wrong against the corruption of state and the ideologies of the time.
Ironically even the priests who got Christ killed, are inspired themselves by Christ’s honesty and they too develop their own self worth to stop being a pack of dogs and be individuals in their own right. Once they developed their self respect, they are able actually have the strength to do good. And the notion of heaven and hell are different too; in Nicodemus, the suggestion is that hell is realm where people are unable to be themselves because they are so down trodden and demoralised that they cannot be, and heaven is the strength / faith / integrity to be yourself.
It’s a completely different message from what is in the bible today. The Christ of the early christian church – at least from Nicodemus and Jame’s perspective was more like a proto- Nietzschian character which was very welcome change from the cloistered corruption of the old testiment.
Problem is Christ never existed. He’s a character from religious fiction. No historical records exist. And bureaucrats already existed back then. He’s made up like the rest of the book.
Well Christ did exist, and he must of existed, because Jesus was a common name at the time. To say no Jesus existed is a bit like saying there’s no Joseph. What would that even mean.
Roman historians recorded his trial and death for “sorcery”. See historian Flavius Josephus. There are some other historical accounts too. However these historical accounts are all written after the fact. Make of that what you will.
Regarding the stories in the bible, i actually agree with you. Many of them are probably not true. But then again neither are aesop’s fables, but nobody denies the wisdom or morality in these texts, which is why we give them to kids to read.
Yes, there are still Jesuses around. All over the world…
Flavius Josephus’ texts do not exist in original form. His reports about Jesus Christ and John the Baptist result in alterations by christian scholars long after. These parts of his records are unreliable and probably fake to fit the clerical narrative. Historically speaking those passages in Josephus’ texts are worthless.
Make of that what you will.
Not sure if the bible is an appropriate reading matter for kids. It’s full of murder, adultery, se×ual immorality (including animals), r*pe, cannibalism, genocide and infanticide.- Like many bronze age stories about gods and men. Look at old greek mythology alone.
Fundamental wisdom and morality might appear in these text of the bible, Aesop, Homer, and more. Yet they not originate in religion. They are based on social rules and interaction between people. Religion just forced new interpretations and distortions on people for the gain of power by certain individuals or groups.
Hi god believers, I have a problem. I really hate suffering. Which god do you recommend to believe in to avoid eternal torture, the one with a son?
“Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.”
John 3.18
Or the one without any son?
“Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses – We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.”
Quran 4.56
I recommend Baal. Plus is you can sacrifice your neighbors annoying kids to him.
Whatever you say, hoss.
I’ve read a lot of religions. And i really do mean a LOT of religions. If you’re interested in the suffering question, the religion or doctorine that tackles it head on i think is buddhism.
Have a look at the dhammapada. If you like that, consider investigating the bdk tripitaka, the 3 pure land sutras is an interesting text, but try the dhammapada first.
By the way i’m not recommending that text because i’m buddhist, personally i’m closer to egyptian / jainism.
It just happens to be the religion that centrally focuses on the issue of suffering.
The kid is saying, “I need an adult!”
Perfect!
Nothing says love like threats of infinite torture.
It’s ironic that the ones who preach fire and brimstone are the same one who do the same things they preach against. Preaching absolves one of all sins./S
Christian bashing! OMG How original for this site! You guys NEVER do this. Now do Jews.
Or the New Atheists. Those guys are insufferable prigs, whose cartoonish mental universe is incapable of grasping adult concepts like poetry, logic, and common rhetorical devices. Their tin pot demigods are dropping like flies – Hitchens died a knee walking drunk, Dawkins just got the boot from the AHA for his anti trans tirades – so you’ll have lots of easy targets for your cheap shots.
They’re not bashing Christianity any more than the Pope right now, apologizing for how Catholics screwed the native people of Canada. Christianity has a long bloody history of destroying cultures around the world. It’s no secret.
So your defense is to attack a couple authors? Do you know what “ad hominem” means?
Or the Old Atheists. Those guys are insufferable prigs, whose cartoonish mental universe is incapable of grasping adult concepts like science and adapting rules to a changing society.
Look at the Rainbow Brown’s books, he writes about you. By the way, Jesus was a Jew.
Theist tears.
I’m sorry, did you actually claim that it’s the atheists that can’t comprehend science?
Can’t handle adapting rules to a changing society?
lol. I hope that was meant as sarcasm. If not, that’s in the running for the most inaccurate thing I’ve read on the internet.
You are correct — that should have been the Old Theists.
He who still believes an any kind of deity isn’t fit for the 21st century.
Ok, ok.. do islam then.
It’s the same God. He threatens his islamic followers, too.
Sorry, I don’t know Islam as well.
Also, they aren’t the ones trying to change the leaders of the free world into an athoritarian state.
The old testament is also part of the Quran. Same as the Jewish Torah. Together with Christianity it’s the group of Abrahamic religions. It’s all the same god and the same book. Christianity and Islam just added a second volume to put more hate into it. When it comes to religious fanatism they are all the same in the end.
soo… you can’t defend Christianity then?
We see this kind of comment multiple times every time Christianity comes up. If you can’t defend your beliefs, maybe you should find some new ones.
Yes.. yes.. the desert trilogy. Bewildering people for ages.
Knowing what happens after death is pretty much unknowable. Knowing if this earth was created and by which possible deity is also unknowable. What evidence do we really have that any religion is correct? There’s not even any evidence for something tangible like Noah’s ark. If you think you know for certain, it’s just wishful thinking.
IF there is a just god, they wouldn’t be punishing us for not being able to answer an unknowable question properly. IF there was really a god, and IF they really wanted us to worship them, then they would have left us evidence.
They will argue:
It’s all written in a book. So it must be true. Copyright by God.
No visible or audible evidence to what’s written in the book is a test of your believe.
Wonders are evidence. They are described in the book.
circular conclusions. That’s all they have.
WHO F’in CARES!? People are starving, but let’s waste time arguing about something we will never know the answer to.
True, when you are dead you are gone. You can’t know anything without existing.
After his abortion ban Judge Samuel Alito is already working on mandatory religion for American citizens. Hope you are in the right church. Kiss your freedoms good buy. 💋 Christian Iran is coming to your town, too.
I’ll take thing’s that never happened for 600 Alex.
This isn’t christian logic. This is bible logic. If you’ve read nicodemus and / or protevangelion and the nag hamadi library, you’d know that the best bits of the bible have been removed leaving only the angry old man garbage frankly.
So just to add to this what i mean, is in the bible christ is a really important figure. If you think about it, the bible skips over christ’s childhood, it glosses over mary’s parents. Now christ’s childhood is really important actually, it gives you a completely different understanding of who christ was.
He was a straight talking person, and no matter how much pressure and how much bullying or how much trouble he was in, he was always straight up about the truth. When he killed people as a child, he was honest about what happened.
Nicodemus covers the trial of christ in great detail – something which is for the most part glossed over the the bible as it stands today. It goes into great detail about what’s happening, and it is apparent in Nicodemus’s account that what is on trial here, the “truth” isn’t about right or wrong, it isn’t about religion or christianity.
What’s on trial is actually the truth, the ability for christ to be himself and be honest. And Christ spectacularly breaks out of this by continuing to show the bravery to be honest no matter even when confronted with death.
Now what’s interesting about Nicodemus’s account is that it’s apparent that the people trying to have christ crucified are actually people who don’t have the courage or bravery to be themselves, they are hiding behind identity politics using religious and idiological arguments as a defence.
After Christ dies (and the two people who are crucified with him, are actually two thieves that Christ comes across in childhood, coincidentally), he becomes a bit of a “gothic” role model, in so much as people respect that this guy stood up to the system, and even though it killed him, he didn’t let the system bully, harass or demoralize him.
As a result other people started stand up for what they felt was right or wrong against the corruption of state and the ideologies of the time.
Ironically even the priests who got Christ killed, are inspired themselves by Christ’s honesty and they too develop their own self worth to stop being a pack of dogs and be individuals in their own right. Once they developed their self respect, they are able actually have the strength to do good. And the notion of heaven and hell are different too; in Nicodemus, the suggestion is that hell is realm where people are unable to be themselves because they are so down trodden and demoralised that they cannot be, and heaven is the strength / faith / integrity to be yourself.
It’s a completely different message from what is in the bible today. The Christ of the early christian church – at least from Nicodemus and Jame’s perspective was more like a proto- Nietzschian character which was very welcome change from the cloistered corruption of the old testiment.
Problem is Christ never existed. He’s a character from religious fiction. No historical records exist. And bureaucrats already existed back then. He’s made up like the rest of the book.
Well Christ did exist, and he must of existed, because Jesus was a common name at the time. To say no Jesus existed is a bit like saying there’s no Joseph. What would that even mean.
Roman historians recorded his trial and death for “sorcery”. See historian Flavius Josephus. There are some other historical accounts too. However these historical accounts are all written after the fact. Make of that what you will.
Regarding the stories in the bible, i actually agree with you. Many of them are probably not true. But then again neither are aesop’s fables, but nobody denies the wisdom or morality in these texts, which is why we give them to kids to read.
Yes, there are still Jesuses around. All over the world…
Flavius Josephus’ texts do not exist in original form. His reports about Jesus Christ and John the Baptist result in alterations by christian scholars long after. These parts of his records are unreliable and probably fake to fit the clerical narrative. Historically speaking those passages in Josephus’ texts are worthless.
Make of that what you will.
Not sure if the bible is an appropriate reading matter for kids. It’s full of murder, adultery, se×ual immorality (including animals), r*pe, cannibalism, genocide and infanticide.- Like many bronze age stories about gods and men. Look at old greek mythology alone.
Fundamental wisdom and morality might appear in these text of the bible, Aesop, Homer, and more. Yet they not originate in religion. They are based on social rules and interaction between people. Religion just forced new interpretations and distortions on people for the gain of power by certain individuals or groups.
🥱