American Healthcare System

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  1. Europeans have a lot of time to think about American health care system when they are waiting 6 months to see a doctor :)
    I mean, it’s free (only costs half of their salaries in taxes and a lot of ppl out of jobs due to high taxes) and it’s for everybody (or at least the ones that can survive the months of waiting list for simple things like an x-ray).

    • No problem, enjoy your system and never change to the european one, it sounds like us system is perfect and has no drawbacks

    • European Random Dude September 29, 2017

      Well… we do not have to work 6 months to afford one visit to the doctor.

    • Hey random dude, it’s you who works more than 6 months per year to government to receive your “free” stuff (more than 50% of taxes = more than 6 months per year as slave to your government).
      I have the freedom to chose which doctor I’m going to, how about you? Have the freedom of where you’re spending your 6 months waiting for the x-ray?

    • @moorder your system is broken and unsustainable and no way a good example. All ppl hear is “free” stuff, but forget the bad side effect of paying for it causes to whole country.
      Just read about Italy and see that is Europe that perhaps should change to an obamacare style.

    • Hein, don’t forget about the countries’ DEATH PANELS…
      …which are merely “banal bureaucracies” (inspired by Hitler)
      that “save the taxpayer money” by delaying procedures
      long enough that many patients DIE…in the name of EQUALITY!!!

    • The old man on the mountain Alamut September 30, 2017

      We Europeans have to wait 6 months to see the doctor? Last week I spontaneously decided to pay a visit to my doctor and there he was – spreading his state paid wisdom and health insurance paid drugs over the cheerful populace. There were days when I waited longer at the checkout of the local supermarket. And about the costs – like good medicine it stings a bit but it is certainly far less than half of my hard earned money.So get your facts right please.

    • I’ve never ever had to wait that long in any european country I visited or worked in. Another fake Hein story.
      Only the british system sucks. Thanks to Thatcher’s american style neo-liberism system. They never wanted to be europeans after all. So UK doesn’t count, it’s like small scale US.

    • If you want to see a specialist you do have to wait that long. And not only you have to wait, but you have no freedom to choose who you’re seeing.

    • Hein, I suppose you have bever been to a doctor in Europe. But please, cobtinue with your system abd be happy, no problem from my side. .) I love to have lots of free time, work what I want and can choise my Doc

    • Hein get your numbers straight….

      The maximum US taxation on personal income is 49.6% (excluding health insurance)
      The maximum taxation on personal income in Denmark is 55% (including health tax)

      The coperate tax in USA is 40%. In Denmark it is 22%. Add to these numbers that US companies have to pay a host of payments regarding employee security and social benefits. In Denmark this is a big fat 0.

      Yes personal income is higher in Denmark, but it is for more favourable to be a business owner in Denmark than in the USA.

      Unemployment rate in USA was 4.3% in July.
      Unemployment rate in Denmark was 5.7% in april.

      Wages doesnt have influence on unemployment rate, as can be seen internally in the EU, where many of the high wage countries (Denmark 5.7%, Germany 3.9%, Holland 5.1%, Sweden 6.7%, Austria 5.4% etc) as a much lover unemployment rate than those of a low wage countries (Croatia 10.7%, Greece 22.5%, Latvia 8.3% Portugal 9.4%). And if you look in the individual states in the USA and compare wages and unemployment you will find a similar tendency. The real reasons for unemployment include education, infrastructure, low corporate taxation.

    • correction to avoid confusion.. The last sentence should be:
      The real reasons for unemployment include lack of education, poor infrastructure, high corporate taxation.

    • @Number 664: I do agree high taxation on business and lack of education have more impact on unemployment. But a few replies on your numbers:
      – a married couple to achieve that highest income tax in USA needs to make half million per year. How about in Denmark? I make 3 figures a year and my income tax is around 20% and probably will go down with Trump’s tax reform
      – a jobless person is unemployed only if they are looking for job. If you look further, you’ll see a lot of jobless persons aren’t unemployed because they are living out of your taxes. In USA a jobless person is likely to be looking for jobs or they will be in trouble (I.e. a lot less jobless persons than in Denmark)
      – usa is a huge country able to absorb a lot more new people through immigration, while Denmark would collapse if received the prorated amount of illegal immigrants due to the free stuff for everybody would cost too much for everybody else paying.

    • The first 8000 euros you earn in Denmark is tax free. The amount you earn between 8001 and 80000 is taxed at 45%. Anything you earn above 80001 is taxed at 55%. So if you earn 100000 the first 8000 is 0%, then you have 72000 taxed at 45% and and 20000 taxed at 55%. Calculating those numbers i get an acctual taxation of 43.4%. This calculation is based on maximum taxation at all levels: national and municipal.

      This is progressive taxation. You have a similar system in the USA at least at federal level. Only different is that you have 7 brackets in the USA as opposed to the 3 brackets in Denmark.

      Having worked as an accountant for the past 25 years i took the numbers you provided about your own income (3 digit) and had a look at the IRS taxation brackets for 2017. According to the IRS website the first 4 brackets are: upto 9325 is taxed at 10%; 9326 – 37950 taxed at 15%; 37951 – 91901 at 25%; 91901 – 191650 at 28%
      So if you earn 100000 your federal tax for 2017 will be: 9325 at 10% = 932, 28624 at 15% = 4293, 53949 at 25% = 13487, 251 at 28% = 70. Thus leaving you with an actual taxation at 18.7%. This fits very well with your 20% tax rate you claimed, provided you are a lucky bastard and living in one of those only 9 states without a state income tax and even more lucky to live in a place without local (city/county/municipal) taxation. Good for you :)

      But personal taxation levels are not so easy to compare. First off in Denmark healthcare is payed as part of your personal income, as opposed to the USA where you need your own insurance, 2ndly and perhaps most importanly: Companies in Denmark pay nothing extra for employee social securities, insurances and so forth, and 3rdly the double corperation tax you have in the USA. If you takes those company paid extras into account and add them to your 20% tax you will proberbly end up around the 40%-45% in total. In the end there isn’t any real difference, just different ways of collecting the money.

      If a government is looking to increase trade the best way is to provide its people with more money. This is most effectively done by lowering the taxation of the bottom brackets rather than the top brackets. Yes lowering in the top brackets means a few people can afford to buy a new Mercedes, but that doesn’t really create more jobs. Lowering in the bottom brackets gives many more people more money, they can use on buying more every day items and maybe even getting a plumber to fix the pipes proberly, this creates more jobs.

      Regarding the unemployment situation, there are some similarities and some differences. However i shall only address those where you have a wrong picture of it is in Denmark (and i premuse in the rest of Europe aswell).
      You write: “you’ll see a lot of jobless persons aren’t unemployed” … How do you define jobless and unemployed to mean 2 different things? If you look in a dictionary Jobless means unemployed, and viceversa unemployed means jobless. In accordance with dictionaries i treat the words to mean the same thing. If you don’t have a job you are allowed a period on dole, part of it is paid by the government the other part is paid by your union, but ONLY if you have been a union member for atleast 10 years. If you are not a union member you can not recieve the amount paid by the union but only the government part, and only for 11 out of 12 months, plus you are required to be actively seeking jobs. Your idea that unemployed just sits on their arses without doing anyhing couldn’t be farther from the truth!

      Regarding immigrants: As such there is no illegal immigrants in Denmark, and if there were thou would not be able to seek any kind of official help but instead by promptly shipped back across the border. A refugee is allowed to cross the border and pass through the country upon registration, however they are not entitled to any kind of benefit unless they seek asylum, which is only possible if they have not previously sought asylum in another country, and after seeking asylum they are put in camps and they amount of money they recieve is only half of what a dane would recieve.

      Summa summarum: There is no real difference in the amount that is paid in tax and health insurance Just different ways of collecting the money, Denmark being far more capitalistic believes in taxing the people and not taxing the business, USA being (in this context) less capitalistic believes in taxing the business and not the people. Your ideas of how Denmark/Europe works is rather flawed.

    • 6 months? Not sure what you’re on about, just took my friend down there a month ago after he broke his finger. The waiting time was 20 minutes. The average waiting time for an appointment is like 13 days in denser area’s of population, everywhere else is like 3-4 days. If you go to the A&E it about 10-30 minutes depending on its urgency, emergencies are instant of course.

    • Get your facts straight. You can always pay and do your examination/surgery right away, and then get the money back, either in the form of a tax deduction or cash. And the prices are far lower. Or you can wait (not 6 months) and get it free. Just for comparison, I had my valve replaced and due to complications I had to remain 2 weeks in the hospital of which 1 was in the ER. Total for exams prior and afterwards, operation, doctor and nurses fees, stay and medication was 5000€ taxes included, in one of the best facilities the country has. How much would that cost in the US?

    • When my wife needed to see a doctor recently, she got an appointment that afternoon. She was told she needed to see a specialist. The specialist’s appointment team had phoned her up before she got home. The six months idea is simple fiction.

      The UK pays less, per capita, than the US pays to the federal government. Then Americans pay the same again out of their wages.

      What you are saying is, quite simply, false.

    • Maybe you should recheck your resources. Obviously someone wasn’t giving you objective information to you.

    • Italiano Medio October 10, 2017

      Hein, come on my man, Italy is the worst possible example you could find, luckily *not* everybody in the EU got it as bad as we do.

      Even so the waiting list here is about 2 to 4 weeks. Not sure where you read about those “6 months”.

    • A friend stepped in a sea urchin in greece, she is from the ukrain (not EU) and the first treatment is free and we waited zero time.
      Doctor told us to use vaseline to soften the skin, it worked.
      I wore shoes and only hat to small punctures that I fixed with sterilized needle. We learned that as small. children.
      By the way greece is considered a poor EU member.
      I’m from germany btw. Bandage materials are about1/3 of german prices.

    • Bullshit.

  2. Hmm
    Not where I am from.

    Tax is 43% of gross income, deduction and other mathmagic and total tax is around 30ish %

    From this every person receives:
    Free: healthcare
    Free Schools (university degree included if you wish)
    Free dental care till age 16 (after which you have underage benefits)
    Free social services
    And the list goes on and on and on

    As for the waiting lists concerning X-ray.
    In general the General practitioner / dentist Etc has an X-ray – no waiting
    At the hospital – depending on severity you may have to wait 2 hours if really unlucky

    And no one is unemployed due to taxes

    So yeah i don’t really mind the tax all that much

    • Sorry to end your fairy dream, but you’re forgetting what your employer pays on your behalf (I.e. you don’t see in your pay slip).
      So not only you have smaller salary, but you pay higher rates. If you consider both, you pay more than 50% of your work to government.
      And of course you’re not considering too how many ppl are unemployed because the private sector didn’t receive the resource that the government took from you.

      Enjoy your socialist dream.

    • TELL US where you are from.
      your fairy tale is likely a LIE.

      In the US, I *USED TO PAY* $40 for the above,
      now, with Socialist ObamaCare, it DOES cost $4,000…and the “deductible” is $8,000.

      ERADICATE SOCIALISM.

    • Hein i’m sorry to inform you that your’e in the wrong, employers do not pay extra for employees.

      And no i’m not a socialist – but glad i do not have to pay for my fathers heart surgeries over the past years – like i said i don’t mind the tax

      And concerning the private sector – I cannot correct you because what your are trying to convey is so far off that i don’t even know how to begin and you are clearly reaching.

    • Taxes garantee a stable state which is good for stable the economy. Look at Germany. Small country, high taxes, economy monster – US. Huge country, joke taxes, failed economy. The Germans know how to do it.

    • Loooooooool. Taxes makes a stable economy and USA’s economy is a joke :)
      Germany has a stable economy because of euro: it has a stable economy at the cost of all other euro members that have a joke economy growth (e.g. German banks are the gatekeeper to euro zone, and they profited billions with the Greek crisis).

      Wrt American economy, maybe USA should stop paying for Europe’s defense as its economy is a joke hehe (USA is the reason Europeans don’t speak Russian). And stopping carrying UN (by paying 1/4 of its budget).

    • *lol* Didn’t had Germany one of the most stable currencies before the Euro – the Deutsch Mark? Another fail on your side, Hein.
      And yeah, stop all financing UN and NATO. But don’t cry for help when no one comes to your aid. You’ll need a lot of it in the future. Those hurricanes are just the beginning. There are more catastrophes to come. Trump is already ruining the heritage of your socialist founding fathers completely. You are sliding right into a 3rd world monarchy. Like North Korea, just under capitalist management.

  3. there is none so blind as an American who believes they’re better than the rest of the world. Do you care nothing for your poor who don’t have their employer covering healthcare?

    • What’s wrong with WORKING for health care? When my partner needed medical coverage for his Valtrex, he didn’t cry to Obama for freebies; he quit his theater lighting studies and got a JOB at Chili’s that included health benefits. Now he’s WORKING for the economy (and his sores are clearing up nicely, thank you).

      Capitalism. It just works, libtard.

    • I knew you are gay.

    • Gays are harmless. Except the right-winged gays. They are like jews selling other jews to the nazis.

    • Except Jews were the right wing (according to nazis) and nazis were one of the left wing (nazis, communists and socialists were fighting each other to decide who were the best lefty). They all were in favor of government controlling economy, against profit, against big corporations, against interest, against banks. And Jews were the “1%”.

    • Problem is nazis never were left or socialist at all. All fake. Some things never change.

  4. You keep arguing about nonsense. Real question is, if I pay $4,000 will someone kiss me in the forehead?

  5. Are you sure, this is US? One eyed aliens seem pretty alien to me. Are they real americans? Hmmm….

  6. the reason socialized medicine states have such high taxes is that their taxes pay for people who won’t/can’t pay for themselves. the reason u.s. health care prices are so high is that their medical bills pay for people who won’t/can’t pay for themselves.

    • A good system also pays for those who could pay for themselves. It pays for everyone. Or it would not be socialized. Everything else would be anti-social or just stupid.

    • Free stuff for everybody, paid by somebody else!!

    • Nothing wrong with that. Except you are an egocentric sociopath. Like 90% of all americans.

  7. @Kauf: A poster using the name “Scand” is most likely Scandinavian (should be easy to understand for non-Murricans). So am I, and I can corroborate his claims. All true, and I am one of those not paying for my years at university. I still got some cheap student loans, which bought me my first apartment (actually the only one, next was a house). I’ve also spent decades as an employer (retired now), so I can safely tell Heil that I never paid any health insurance for any of my employees. Nor do anyone else as far as I know.

    The US for-profit system is ridiculously expensive as it is designed to benefit insurance companies rather than the US population. Americans pay more for health care than anyone else in the world, but infant mortality rate and general life expectancy are like in a third world country. All other developed countries have models that cover all citizens for far lower cost, and they also perform better. It’s time to wake up when your system ranks far below Morocco, as in WHO’s global health report, or dead last in any comparison with other developed countries, like this:
    http://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/press-releases/2010/jun/us-ranks-last-among-seven-countries

  8. The cause of why insurance and hospitals have spun up the costs, “Adam ruins everything”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeDOQpfaUc8

    • That’s a good way to deal with USA health care problem, instead of coming with the BS European single payer.
      FWIW deregulations on health insurance and opening the market more easily to new insurance companies are IMO the best way to control this case.

    • New insureance companies. You are funny. Do they grow out of the ground? Your existing economy will eat them up and force them to merge with the big players. You’ll end up with the same result you began. Oligopoly. You are just restarting the failed system again and again.
      And you obviously – like others mentioned – haven’t understodd the european system. There is not “one single payer”. There are several insurance companies who have to manage for themselves. Some are totally indepentend from welfare. The fees are just taken by the members by taxes. The state would only fund people who do not earn enough money or are unemployed – but they are to be insured by companies under welfare control. Only if an insurance company would get into financial trouble the state would intervene. But that would happen by really bad management and the state has an eye on them.
      You see there is still a way you just could insure yourself independently from the social welfare system. And even if you fail in life – like here on eatliver – and lose everything the regular welfare system will aid with your health. So you may find another job and start paying into the system again instead of dying in the street next winter.

  9. Guys,
    there is no need to discuss the US health system if you like it so much.
    Just enjoy the benefits of not living in such a bad place as Europe where even poor people, elderly people, artists, social workers, teachers and other not so well paid professions have access to good healthcare. I know it really bothers the capitalists that they have to work at shitty jobs with no purpose and receive the same healthcare. So just be happy that you live in the US and stop whining around.

  10. Teachers in the US are absolutely not “not so well paid professions”

    • In most countries teachers are not as well paid as they should be. That’s how people like Trump get voted.

  11. I'm Confussed October 1, 2017

    Look folks, this is EatLiver, the site designed to troll anyone and everyone. The stuff put up on here was/is meant to be frivolous and mildly entertaining. Most of you well intentioned people take it way too seriously. I’m not flaming or trying to start anything, but who would spend the amount of time some of you have to dig out facts and figures to argue with trollers and (master)baiters. It doesn’t make a fig which system is best. USA will not change, EU will not change. Let’s all encourage EatLiver to return to the old days of fun and mirth and silliness. See, I’m not so confused.

  12. Robert Tailon October 1, 2017

    AMERICANS ARE BRAINWASHED! THEY ABSOLUTELY DO NOT KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT. POOR AMERICA!

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